Tags
animals, biology, essay, middle-earth, smaug, thranduil’s deer
I tried to make this readable for both biologists and non-biologists. Please keep in mind that English is not my native language thus making it sometimes hard for me to use certain scientific terms the correct way.
These are my personal thoughts on Middle-earth’s biology as shown in The Hobbit – An Unexpected Journey. They are in no particular order.
Thranduil’s deer:
I have seen long discussions about this. People without a big interest in biology saw the leaf shaped antlers of the deer and immediately called it a Moose. If you know Moose however, it will become quite obvious this is another deer species. And indeed the Fallow Deer Dama dama (a Eurasian species) has very similar antlers and even looks very much like the deer in the movie. However with a shoulder height of barely 100 cm it is impossible for a man or elf to ride it.
Now one might think Peter Jackson just invented a large deer to suffice as a riding animal. While this might be true in today’s world, it isn’t when looking far back into the past. Deer of the extinct genus Megaloceros were also distributed throughout Eurasia and looked very much like the Fallow Deer, only twice as large. They also had antlers which exceeded even those of a Moose in size and made them quite an impressive sight. There are quite a lot of known skeletons and maybe your local museum of natural history has one in display. When you stand in front of one you can immediately imagine this being Thranduil’s deer. Considering that the Megaloceros went extinct about 10,000 years ago and Middle-earth is supposed to be an ancient version of Europe this even makes a lot of sense.
Megaloceros skeleton
The only weird thing about this is: Megaloceros had such vast antlers that forests were impassable obstacles for them; they therefore lived in plains and grasslands. One can only wonder how Thranduil is going to ride through Mirkwood on it; however, that remains to be seen in the second Hobbit movie.
Ponies:
Ponies are small but sturdy creatures so they make really good carriers. What I loved most about the ponies in the movie was their fur. Various different pony breeds (for example the Shetland Pony or the Icelandic Horse) really look this fuzzy at winter time. However the ponies of the Dwarves looked like this even in summer. Weta Chronicles states they were therefore covered in fur suits to make them look woolly for the movie. It is a little trick but at least not completely wrong as ponies do wear fur like this, just in another season.
- Icelandic Horse with winter fur
Wargs:
I personally found the Wargs in LOTR really awful. They looked like poorly animated robots to me and not at all like wolves. Especially their body shape resembled that of hyenas. Keep also in mind that hyenas are actually Feliformia (“cat-like carnivores”) which makes their usage as Wargs seem even more wrong.
Luckily though the Wargs in The Hobbit could definitely be classified in the order Caniformia (“dog-like carnivores”), which puts them a lot closer to wolves. I don’t want to go so far as to describe them as “wolf-like” as wolves tend to be a lot smaller and less fleshy. Wolves also hardly ever show such aggressive behaviour which more reminds me of attack dogs. Wolves are more tender and careful animals. So I see those Wargs simply as “invented” creatures. Weta Chronicles calls them “demon wolves” which also sounds reasonable to me.
Fur colours vary vastly in real world wolves so having a white Warg within the pack is completely acceptable.
Rhosgobel rabbits:
There is not really a lot to say about them. Anatomically they are clearly rabbits and not hares, which is good. However for me at least the glimpses we have of them are so short and quick-paced that I find it impossible to make out the exact species. The most obvious guess would probably be the European Rabbit (Oryctolagus cuniculus) considering it is the best known and – sadly, because not natural – the widest distributed rabbit species.
European Rabbit (Oryctolagus cuniculus)
They also show at least one characteristic behaviour: they thump on the floor with their hind leg when alert. Apart from that I doubt that neither could they pull a sleigh with a human on it nor could they be tamed enough to make them run in groups. But I see those as slight modifications that are acceptable in a fantasy world.
Hedgehogs:
Radagast with Sebastian
Not much to say either. They look like hedgehogs although they don’t necessarily sound like them. They most likely resemble the European Hedgehog (Erinaceus europaeus), a very common animal in Western, Central and Northern Europe.
European Hedgehog (Erinaceus europaeus)
Eagles
They give me a bit of a headache. Of course they are far too large for any eagles of the real world. There simply is not and never has been any species of eagle or other bird of prey even nearly this large. The largest birds of prey, depending on either wingspan or weight, are the Steller’s Sea Eagle (Haliaeetus pelagicus) or the Harpy Eagle (Harpia harpyja). Needless to say they are both much smaller than the eagles in The Hobbit and further they don’t even look anything like them.
The largest eagle ever to have lived was the Haast’s Eagle (Harpagornis moorei), indigenous in New Zealand, large enough to attack moas but definitely not to carry a wizard, a dwarf or even a hobbit.
So the reason the eagles give me a headache is not the size (it is clear they are ridiculously large) but just the way they look. I don’t think they can be assigned to any real eagle species. I would go this far to say that they appear to belong to the Aquila genus, most likely Aquila chrysaetos (Golden Eagle), though the colours are slightly off. Aquila is good enough though; it’s a genus widely distributed over the Old World and that makes them good to belong to Middle-earth. A Bald Eagle for instance would have never fit into that world!
- Golden Eagle (Aquila chrysaetos)
There is nothing to complain about their way of flying or grabbing objects and that is really all the behaviour we see of them.
Edit:
Larry Dixon who worked with his eagle Mina on bringing the eagles in The Hobbit to life kindly confirmed in the comments below that the species used indeed was the Golden Eagle. You should check out his website where you can see him with one of the eagles used for LOTR and The Hobbit:
http://gryphonking.aelfhame.net/
Thank you very much for contributing and refining this essay, Larry!
Note by DJ: Larry has further provided a picture of Mina and the original reference mount used for Gwaihir in LOTR:
Mina the Golden Eagle
Larry Dixon and Gwaihir reference
Radagast’s birds:
The birds nesting in Radagast’s hair go by too quickly for my eyes. I gladly accept any suggestions on their species from somebody else.
There is also a dead bird lying on the floor which is clearly a Eurasian Jay (Garrulus glandarius).
- Eurasian Jay (Garrulus glandarius)
Now the bird that shows Radagast the way to Dol Guldur seems odd to me. It looks very much like the American Robin (Turdus migratorius) thus making it also a thrush.
Even the colouration around the eye matches this bird. However this really bothers me considering Peter Jackson was clever enough to only include European wildlife with all the other animals. I don’t see a reason why he did not choose the European Robin (Erithacus rubecula) or any other bird species native to Europe for this task. I might be a nerdy biologist when I say this now, but I see this American Robin as one of the big mistakes Peter Jackson made in this movie. Most other people probably won’t even notice it is there, but it annoys at least me a lot to see it.
- American Robin (Turdus migratorius)
The Thrush:
The thrush at the end of the movie clearly is a European thrush and so I could reconcile with Peter Jackson again. The exact species is hard to make out – lots of thrush species tend to look very similar – but we are most likely in the genus Turdus and we are most likely in Europe which is good enough considering the thrush is going to be one of the key characters in this story (or let’s say: hopefully it will be also in the movie) and should therefore look credible.
- Song Thrush (Turdus philomelos)
One thing especially wonderful for me to see was this bird showing the most typical thrush behaviour ever. They tend to smash snails against rocks to crack them open. Even the movement looks natural. Usually they like to visit the same rock over and over again and it becomes clear in the movie why the thrush chooses this rock: There are lots of snails crawling around it.
Smaug:
We haven’t seen a lot of him yet but one can still conclude a bit. First of all he seems to be HUGE, which is really nice. If he’d be too small he would never be as frightening. His colour is clearly true to the book. You can see him being reddish from the glimpses you see of him in the prologue. Don’t be tricked by him looking blue in the very last scene of the movie; that is really just the reflection of the objects around him. If you look closely you can even see his red colour in that shot.
He also appears to be no wyvern but instead walks on four legs and additionally has two wings. How do I know? From the way he walks and breaks down the doors to Erebor it is nearly impossible for him to stand on only two legs.
Also a biped reptile (like a Tyrannosaurus Rex) would have its legs positioned more centered beneath its hips whereas a reptile walking on four legs would have them positioned laterally. Just think of a Komodo Dragon as reference here.
Without seeing his body Smaug’s legs still seem to have a rather outward position.
Now one may argue: dragons clearly are reptiles and there are no vertebrates with six limbs. While this is true, we could just be lazy and say “This is fantasy, don’t worry.”
- Draco volans
I do want to bring up a remarkable little lizard that is very much real in our world: Gliding Lizards, better known as Flying Dragons, belonging to the genus Draco (you see how all those names fit our topic?) may not be able to actively fly, but they do have quite large membranes stretched between their exceptionally long ribs to allow them to “fall” gracefully. Let’s take thoughts on further evolution of this extraordinary anatomic feature: ribs could become even longer, with the membrane covering a larger area between them. We all know that vertebrates have muscles in their back; some of them could be adapted to move those wings and voila! We just need to combine this with the size of a dinosaur and the atmosphere of Jurassic Age to allow reptiles to even grow that large… Yes, I know this is complete nonsense, and a reptile this size would neither be able to fly actively nor even get off the ground, but anatomically and evolutionary I wouldn’t call dragons entirely impossible – IF all necessary components apply. And please keep in mind that birds by terms of evolution are nothing else than feathered, flying dinosaurs either.
However I can’t come up with any biologic explanation to breathing fire so I take at least that part of dragons to be a mere product of fantasy.
There is one more little detail about Smaug that made me happy to see: His nictitating membrane (the third eyelid) is clearly visible, which makes him even more lifelike to our world considering that most vertebrates – and especially reptiles – have them.
The Moth:
The whole moth scene irritates me a bit to be honest as I am really not sure about the time of day in this particular scene. It is clear sunshine before and clear sunshine after the Warg attack. For some reason though it appears to be very dark DURING the Warg attack. So I am not sure if it is supposed to be even daytime at this point.
Let us put all time inconsistencies aside and assume it is night time at the point where Gandalf picks up the moth. It irritated me at first because for a long time I actually thought this was a butterfly and not a moth. However it could resemble Saturnia pavoniella, a moth with very limited distribution in Europe: it can only be found south of the Alps.
Saturnia pavoniella – male
Why did Peter Jackson choose a rather unknown species? Maybe simply because it is an exceptionally pretty moth. To be honest I am still not sure the moth in the movie is supposed to be this exact species, though the Saturniidae family seems to generally be a good guess here. If you have any better suggestions I would gladly accept them!
Edit:
As pointed out by Bracken Brandybuck in the comments below the moth strongly resembles another member of the Saturniidae family. The Emperor Gum Moth (Opodiphthera eucalypti) is native to Australia and was later on also introduced to New Zealand. Obviously this moth was already used in Fellowship of the Ring as messenger moth between Gandalf and the eagle to also give local species some screentime. This species is very variable in colouration so the two moths in the two movies being of the same species is definitely credible. I chose a picture of a bright orange specimen to go with The Hobbit.
Emperor Gum Moth (Opodiphthera eucalypti)
I have been neither to Australia nor to New Zealand so I am not familiar with their local insects. However after looking at some pictures of Opodiphthera eucalypti I prefer this species over the one I originally suggested. Thank you, Bracken Brandybuck!
Thoughts on different humanoid creatures:
Azog the Defiler
Orcs to me seem to be mainly made out of muscles. In this way they remind me very much of Great Apes, which also vastly exceed the human body in strength. I kind of imagine having to battle a gorilla and am already scared at the thought of it. It would probably take 10 men to bring him down. I suppose this is the big advantage of Orcs: massive strength.
Goblins on the other hand seem to be weak little creatures who above all are also a lot dumber than Orcs. Their strength mainly lies in number and when I look at the wide shots in Goblin Town it actually reminds me very much of an ant hill in there: there are so many of them and despite seemingly having no brain they all appear to know what they are supposed to do.
They are ugly little creepers who seem to have lost any beauty in years and years of evolution. Living under the mountain has made their skin all squishy and pale. Their anatomy looks crippled as they obviously like to run around bent down. Their eyes are very big as it is normal for animals living in a dark environment. They either lose their eyes because they are useless or they tend to get bigger and bigger to catch even the last rays of light. The Goblins definitely look like a race that lives underground but would be incapable of living in the bright sunlight.
I have been thinking of Dwarf anatomy for quite a while now. I would really like to see a Dwarf naked, not to gush over him but because I would love to see their proportions. From the way they move and the illusion they give us by their clothes I imagine their legs to be rather short. As far as I’ve heard they helped the actors to be tricked into this illusion by applying heavy fat suits to them which meant they had no other choice than to move like a dwarf. Watch them walk or run closely; you will make out what I mean.
Looking at their fingers and faces makes it obvious that Dwarves are a lot more meaty than humans. This makes perfect sense since Tolkien described Dwarves as exceptionally strong so they too had to be very muscular and needed to have limbs to work with.
Dwarven hair is also something very interesting. I have to admit I did try to imitate Fili’s hair on myself but I soon found it impossible to arrange human hair like this. If I want to make a braid as thick as Fili’s I’d have to use half the hair of my head. However he has FOUR braids like this and still a lot of free hair flowing around. Which means Dwarves have either a lot MORE or a lot THICKER hair than humans. I want to think it is a combination of both. And it doesn’t only start with the hair, the beards are also enormous next to even the biggest of human beards. Just look at Gloin’s: no way a human can ever be that hairy, even if he never shaved throughout his life.
Stone Giants:
I am still not sure if this topic is of biologic or geologic concern. I wouldn’t really have a real world explanation for them anyway, so you are free to make up your own mind.
Goblin King’s skull:
The Goblin King has a skull on the stick he is holding. That skull amused me as it seemed to be a combination of sheep (wound horns) and boar (large tusks).
Things in the next movie:
We have hardly seen anything of the spiders yet, I can’t wait to study their anatomy.
Beorn lives with a lot of different animals in the book; I wonder how many of those will actually appear in the movie. And will they really talk and set the table? I am also looking forward to the large bees that collect honey for him.
Also there will finally be a full view of Smaug so there will be more to say about him.
This means I am pretty sure there’ll be another biologic analysis by me for the next movie.
Please feel free to disagree or add further input in the comments. Your opinions are very much welcome!
I thoroughly enjoyed your article – particularly the exceptional quality of photographs.
Thanduill’s megaloceros inspired deer was one of the most surprising, and impressive details of the Elves, in the four Middle Earth films to date. Similar portrayals of the great deer species have been prevalent in other fictional depictions of the Elven culture – particularly the Warhammer storyline.
Without a doubt – Middle Earth would not be as authentic, and intriguing without the various animal species … be they authentic or fictional. I consider Smaug and the Great Eagles to play as significant a role in the evolution and fate of Middle Earth as any of the elder races and humans.
I believe that you have the foundations of a Middle Earth Bestiary. As you noted – we’ve yet to see Beorn’s woodland family, or the dark denizens of Mirkwood. As an amateur beekeeper … I am also enthused to see Beorn’s apiary. What mead I could make from such a source.
Thanks for contributing such an insightful review of the often overlooked, and discredited characters of Middle Earth.
Radagast would be proud.
Grim
Thank you very much, Grim!
At first I wasn’t even sure people would see the necessity in this summary and I also thought there would be a lot of people disagreeing; so I am even more delighted to read a comment like yours as the very first one!
I don’t know anything about Warhammer, so I can’t say anything about that.
But I agree with you that a credible nature is very important to make a Fantasy world lifelike. I love the little anatomic details they carefully added bringing different creatures to life.
I blushed at your last sentence. Thank you.🙂
I have to read this delightful article again at leisure, I could only browse through it now, but it IS delightful. as for the ponies they seem to be of different races. Little Myrtle Bilbo takes to in spite of horse-hair allergy looks like a shetland or another small british breed like dartmoor or welsh-mountain. The others are a larger breed, more like a welsh cob or highland pony, and Gandalf obviously rides a small horse. The difference is not so much in the fur – they used wigs for the ponies – but in the line of the necks and backs. I would have loved to see them use icelandics, not only because they do look pretty furry even in summer due to their heavy manes and tails, but also because though they don’t measure more than 1,40 m in average they are capable of carrying thorinsized men and did in the past. They are such a vivid part of the norse spirit. they would have fit in beautifully.
Thank you for this insight! I am in fact no horse person at all and don’t know a lot about different breeds, so those thoughts are very much appreciated. Thanks again.🙂
Anjy,
You are obviously more familiar with the breeds of the British Islands, but I was under the impression that Icelandic horses were used in the film. I’ve only had the opportunity to work with them once – riding and caring for those that I travelled with while residing on the northern coast of Iceland.
The Icelandic horses are quarantined from returning to Iceland once they have left the country. The ranchers cannot risk diseases or compromised bloodline integrity. If these horses were exported to New Zealand, then they will have lost their winter coats adapting to the climate change. I don’t know to what extent the costuming altered their appearance – but the padding and coating may have changed their physical features sufficiently.
Great insight into the differences between the horses each character rode. I’ll let you know what article claimed the horse’s origin … once I’ve recovered it for myself.
I fear the goblins may have eaten it.
Grim
Grim, you are absolutely right about the quarantine. Icelandic horse breeding is different from other races. But to me the ponies used in the film didn’t look icelandic. Myrtle, for sure, is not icelandic. Also they do shed their fur in summer even in Iceland but in more southern countries even in Germany they are prone to a skin-disease called summer-eczema. I don’t know about New Zealand climate but I’d not be surprised if it was a problem there, too. Still, even in summer an icelandic pony will be distinguishable by its mane. http://static.cosmiq.de/data/de/57d/eb/57debca4464dc7c1b15a83c19581ecc2_1.jpg. Also, icelandics are expensive. They mature later than other races – and grow older.
Um, I think they did use Icelandics, according to one source I found. I found the furry horse suits (to make the horses look like ponies) disconcerting, the hair didn’t lie quite right some places, though overall it pretty much worked. I have dealt with a lot of very hairy horses (Shetlands, Welsh, Mustangs) so my eye is used to the way long hair lies on a horse. Most probably wouldn’t notice it.
I agree that the pony suits were one of the least effective costumes🙂 It looks really strange around their legs. I was most amused to see Thorin’s horse plucking at the fake hair on its neck while they were standing waiting for Bilbo. It might be in the film, or in one of the behind the scenes specials, but it is too funny.
What a great article! I loved reading your observations and deductions about the fauna of Middle-earth. It was interesting to find out about Thranduil’s deer, and learning about the inspirations for the various other animals. Thanks for this!
Swell page! Nice look at ME bio 101: Here’s a few thoughts…
Wargs: Tolkien was writing in a time when The Big Bad Wolf was an acceptable archetype in Europe. In the Americas, Wolf was a teacher, great family provider and someone you wanted to emulate. The difference is; Europe had livestock, Native America did not have livestock. Wolf was a competitor for your food/livestock. So, Big Bad Wolf stories. Enter Peter Jackson and modern film. We now see Wolf as a symbol of the vanishing wild, of the havoc humans have wreaked on the planet. So clearly, orcs can’t ride wolves, not even big ones. Orcs (according to Tolkien) are Elves mutated/corrupted by the Powers of Darkness. So what mutated creature would they ride? I thought, too, the wargs look a lot like hyenas (and the CG was not necessarily perfect). Then I found Andrewsarchus (totally sounds like Andy Serkis); http://www.bbc.co.uk/nature/life/Andrewsarchus … 6′ at the shoulder, mammalian predator (or scavenger?) that lived during the Eocene epoch, roughly between 45 and 36 million years ago. It had three small hooves where the claws would be on a canine predator. It’s a mesonychid, which sounds as exotic as warg.
Ah yes, carnivorous ungulates, isn’t evolution just fascinating?😀
Those are nice, but don’t exactly convince me as wargs. There have been larger wolf or wolf-like species in the past but they are all extinct now. You are right, I should have had a look into those before writing this, hmm….
The word warg isn’t exotic at all, in Swedish “varg” means wolf actually. I am sure Tolkien chose that word on purpose.😉
Found the Icelandic link! Yup, some were in The Hobbit.
http://blessiblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/icelandic-horses-in-hobbit-and-their.html
Thanks for this, I’ve been wondering about it since reading they were using the Icelandics last year. It was never very clear if they were for the scale doubles or not. Now we know for sure.
This was wonderful! Thanks so much for sharing! I have two great loves in life: literature and animals. I thoroughly enjoyed this.
Wargs are from Norse history. According to some legends, the Wargs were large enough to be ridden by certain humanoid species. In D&D they were depicted as larger than normal wolves and intelligent enough to speak. However, they were also evil by nature and had to be forced to be mounts, which probably explains the handler’s scarred face in I think it was the Two Towers. However, Dire Wolves were real creatures that died out around 10,000 years ago. They were rather larger than modern wolves though probably not strong enough to be ridden.
As for giants, giant eagles and dragons, to put it bluntly they probably could not exist without magic, at least not in Earthlike gravity. Take the giant. It might weigh as much as an elephant or more but is balancing that weight on only two long legs. The bones of those legs would have to be massive to carry the weight with equally massive muscles to move them. That sets up a vicious circle of mass. Now consider the stresses of it moving, particularly on a fiddly humanlike knee. Then think about all that mass in motion and the stresses to keep the body from tipping over or snapping the knees. It would take some unusual biology (like naturally occurring carbon fiber perhaps) to make them possible. Same goes for the other two, particularly flight. Indeed in older versions of D&D dragonflight was consider to be magical as much as powered by the wings. It was pure PFM/A Wizard Did It trope. I can provide a link to a brief page on that if anyone is interested.
Excuse me, but since this keeps coming up: What is D&D?
Dire Wolves were large yes, but still nothing compared to those Wargs. The largest living carnivore today is the Siberian Tiger and with a maximum weight of 300kg I still doubt a man could ride it. And Dire Wolves were a lot smaller than Siberian Tigers.
Plus I imagine a grown Orc like Azog to weigh at least 250kg, so you need an even bigger mount than for a man.
About giants: Explain dinosaurs then.🙂 In fact – besides favorable atmosphere at that time – many of them had hollow bones, otherwise they would have become too heavy. And that also explains why some of them at one point took off and became birds. That probably also wouldn’t have happened without the hollow bones.
Reptiles this size are definitely possible (Earth history proves that), I am just not sure about the flying topic. There is a reason why birds don’t exceed a certain size either. (Or if they grow ridiculously large like Aepyornis maximus, they rather stay on the ground.)
D&D = Dungeons and Dragons.
I did say above that the Dire Wolf was too small to be ridden, though I edited out “except by small children.”
Most dinosaurs had four legs, especially the big ones. A few were two-legged, including a few species that were large. However, they weren’t upright like a humanoid but had a more horizontal body design with a long tail for balance and maneuvering. A giant humanoid would have a harder time getting around, particularly since human walking and running has been likened to a series of controlled falls. Hollow bones might help, but that still wouldn’t overcome their top heavy momentum issues.
As for flying, there were some good explanations about that in Avatar and other works. Lower gravity and a more dense atmosphere would make big flying creatures more likely. That’s because lower gravity means less muscle power needed and denser air gives each wingstroke more bite.
But again, Middle Earth (and D&D) and fantasy worlds with functioning magic, so it can play a role making these creatures and feats possible.
Ah sorry, I misunderstood, I thought you meant giant bodies in general.
And I know you didn’t say anybody could ride a Dire Wolf, I was just taking that thought a bit further.🙂
Giant bodies are possible, it’s just a matter of what kind. Several thousand pounds balanced on top of a human knee just doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence.
Riding dogs never made a lot of sense to me. A dog’s body moves very differently that a horse’s when running. To see what I mean, watch the movie “Labyrinth” and see how much Sir Dydimus gets thrown around when his dog runs. Sadly there are no good clips of that on Youtube. Goblin scale chariots on the other hand…
You were saying about not being able to ride a large modern carnivore
🙂 Don’t ask me to confirm how accurate this is, but it’s true people have been riding tigers and lions in circuses for a long time.
Oh look, it’s Legolas riding on a lion! And I am sure the lion very much enjoyed this.😛
I am sorry, this somehow makes me laugh.😀
So that’s how Leggie will enter the second film!
While not a biologist, I have always had a keen interest in animals and species. I was delighted by the Irish elk (Megaloceros) that Thranduil rode, but not so delighted in it’s execution. I thought it looked taxidermied, pretty disappointing for what I know Weta is capable of creating. Considering that the king himself looked as cold and emotionless as a wax effigy I suppose the lack of life in his mount was appropriate.
The wargs bothered me for some of the same reasons that you state. I did not agree, however, that they look like hyenas. The heads are far too long with almost no lip. Compared to a warg a hyena is a soft pretty animal. These looked like a combination of the bear-dog Amphicyon mixed with a bit of Andrewsarchus, a shot of hyenadon and a lot of creative license. It’s hard for me to believe that Weta states they did a lot of research on dogs when creating the wargs. There is nothing life-like about them. They certainly aren’t wolves in any sense as wolves are physically beautiful and the least dangerous animal in the wild. The Inuit have a saying – if you want to know if it’s a dog or a wolf…kick it. If it bites you, it’s a dog.
Sebastian the hedgie made me mourn once more that us Americans don’t have hedgehogs. How I would love to have them in my garden. I found him very lifelike and felt he was probably animatronic.
The eagles blew me away. Of course they never existed, but if they did they would look like this. Weta impressed me by creating different tail patterns for them and having their feathers react realistically to the wind. I’m only sorry we didn’t get to hear them speak. I was hoping that was why John Rhys-Davies was in NZ.
The rabbits were…well…magic. I suspect Radagast chose them because they are fast and well…cute. I can see them lounging around his home enjoying a nap by the fire or comfy in his bed, leaving him a only a little space to sleep.
Smaug is definitely stamping around on four legs as wyverns use the knuckles of their wings to substitute for their missing limbs. Powerful forelimbs ripped the doors off of Erebor, something no wyvern possesses. Google Vermitrax Pejorative for the best and deadliest example of a wyvern. Dragons are intelligent beings who may or may not choose to interact with other lesser species like Dwarves and Man. Just because you don’t believe in dragons does not mean they don’t exist…
I’ve thought a lot about Dwarf anatomy myself.🙂 Actually I see him as being heavy boned (why they survived the drop into the Goblin cavern with no breaks) powerfully muscled and generally hardier than the race of Man. They are longer lived and do not suffer from the same level of cell deterioration that causes aging as Men do. I wonder if the thickness of their hair is a trait that was genetically selected for, or just part of their racial makeup as straight thin hair seems to be a trait of Elves.
I thought Gandalf spoke to a moth. It just didn’t physically look like a butterfly to me. I’m going again tonight and will have to look harder at his little messenger.
Thank you so much, Archedcory, for your beautifully written and thought provoking discussions. I am hoping to read more from you in the future.
Thank you for your kind words.🙂
When I compared the LOTR Wargs to hyenas I really just meant the body shape (the sloping back), their heads really look nothing like hyenas.
Living in Europe I can tell you I have met and picked up (yes, I was a curious child) quite a few hedgehogs in my life. They tend to be rather grumpy though. I once tried to save one that was sitting in the middle of a big road and couldn’t even pick it up because it made such a perfect spiky ball….
And I think I was mainly having my moth/butterfly trouble because the 3D was giving me a hard time in that scene. I was searching for fitting butterflies until even non-biologists said to me “Hey, but this was a moth, wasn’t it?” I really couldn’t make out the body shape. I was glad to catch the colours…
I checked again and it does have the heavy body of a moth. Either way, that is one speedy moth… I do wonder why they chose an American robin though when there is a lovely British robin they could have used.
Another blog had a good deal of fun with Andrewsarchus which if you play with it looks a bit like Andrew Serkis. And I still can’t make those bony stiff canids look like anything that could be alive.
I expect wild hedgies are grumpy when approached by small curious boys or girls. I understand they are sweeter when they have come to trust you. As someone who has rescued snapping turtles from the middle of roads I appreciate the whole “spiky ball thing.”
Getting my elf hate on here, but I thought there was a lot more expression in Thranduil’s mount than in the Elvenking himself🙂
About dwarves being heavier boned (or at least less prone to breakage) giving them an advantage while falling into the Goblin tunnels; I can sorta see that. Not so sure Bilbo would not have broken something important on the way down though. Good thing he lands on the pile of shock absorbing dwarves.🙂
tioedong (@tioedong) said:
the large brown moth reminds me of the Philippine Mariposa moth, but smaller.(Atticus Atlas).
Maybe Jackson used a local moth as a template, in the way he used a local spider for Shelob?
It definitely has one sharply drawn perfect circle on each wing though.
The moth that appeared in the Fellowship of the Ring was an Emporer Gum Moth. An Australian species that has been introduced to New Zealand, it has a sharply drawn perfect circle on each wing. I figure the moth in The Hobbit is the same one (species, not individual – they don’t live for over 60 years!).
I could have never made out that species in FOTR. The only thing I knew was: It looks very exotic to my European eye.😉
However the moth in FOTR is greyish while the moth in The Hobbit is bright orange, so I am not convinced they could be of the same species to be honest.
According to the Museum Victoria website: “The Emperor Gum Moth, (Opodiphthera eucalypti), is a spectacular species of moth that is found over most of Australia and has been introduced to New Zealand. It can be quite variable in colour ranging from grey, through straw-coloured, to almost brick red.” If you search Google images you can see a wide variation in colour. In addition, the scene in Fellowship of the Ring is supposed to be on a moonlit night and so all orange tones have been graded out.
Thank you very much! I only looked at the above picture before, but now googling the scientific name you are right: This one looks a lot more like the movie moth! I will change this in the essay a bit later when I have the time for this.
Living in Europe my knowledge of Australian wildlife doesn’t go too far beyond kangaroos and wombats, so thank you very much for the input!🙂
I am missing one kind of animal: the long horned “goats” the dwarves take with them when driven from Erebor. according to Tolkien dwarves had no livestock at all, not even dogs, so there won´t be any info available in the books, but the film offers only skance view of them. they have very long horns, almost straight, which makes them look mire like antelopes or a european steinbock than giats actually. also they seem to be large enoigh to be ridden.
Yes, those are definitely steinbocks aka ibex (what’s the plural of ibex anyway?). I sometimes see them when hiking, so I’m rather familiar with their sight. Also they are a lot larger than you might imagine. They are not that much smaller than an average European deer. Considering the size of a dwarf those steinbocks were definitely accurate in scale.
They also had what appeared to be mouflons. However that scene too was going by way too fast to write a decent analysis. I suppose most people wouldn’t even notice they are there at all.
And the bats? Stick bug? As a Brazilian biologist, congratulations by post!
Come on, we really don’t see enough of the bats. One must use magic to classify those correctly.
The stick insect, well… I didn’t want to write about it cause I thought it’s just a silly joke in there. It doesn’t fit at all into a Middle-earth environment so I rather want to forget it was even there.😉
And thanks… from a European biologist.🙂
Insect snob! Just because you don’t like it (I admit I don’t either) doesn’t mean you shouldn’t tell us exactly what it is.
You mean the stick insect? I’ll even pass on that one. There are quite a few species looking pretty much the same. Plus, it was rather small, meaning not adult yet, and in that state it is even harder to classify.
I could have also written about Men, but maybe it is more convenient picking up an anatomy book instead for that matter.🙂
Someone on Twitter wants to know about the spiders tromping around in Mirkwood. Care to enlighten us?
I really can’t. We hardly see anything of them. They have eight legs, they are black and they are larger than any living spider. That is all I can say so far.😉
I could say stuff about Shelob, but that’s a whole different movie…
The stick insect actually made me smile when I watched the movie. I have Baculum extradentatum at home and in the cinema I thought that the insect looked (in size and color) pretty much like the nymphes when they are almost grown up. But since it’s very likely a nymph it very likely could be some fancy australian species.
The scene was pretty short and I have not yet found any images of it. Moreover, I’m not sure whether it was a real insect at all or just a dummy.
I am a little disappointed that you decided to pass over them, because it gives an incomplete picture. I know you complained in the green forums that the biggest mistake in the movies is the non-european bird, but apparently it’s not the only non-european animal (little chance it is Bacillus rossius) and I think it’s worth pointing that out.😉
In fact the moth isn’t European either, so that is a huge mistake too. We only have one really LARGE moth species in Europe and that one is so rare that PJ probably decided to give the job to another species.
I’ll be completely honest and say I forgot about the stick insect when writing this. I also forgot about the ibexes. I thought about adding both, but am too lazy for the ibexes and as for the stick insect… writing about it would mean I admit it’s there. I still try to pretend I haven’t seen it.😉
It’s not that I don’t like them, I even had some as pets myself a few years back. But I am really not an insect expert and wouldn’t dare to make assumptions on what probably really is just a CGI insect after all.
I am a fish expert btw, could they put some fish into this movie? Would make my life a lot easier.😉
I still don’t understand where the insect is at the beginning of the scene with Radagast. He talks absolutely normal after his arrival: “I was looking for you Gandalf, something is terrily wrong …” and then his troubles with speaking start because of the insect in his mouth. But where the hell was the insect during the first sentences? Surly, not stored inside Radagast ( :ugly: ), and not in his mouth, because it has the length of Gandalfs thumb.
After watching the movie again, I am almost totally sure that the stick insect is CGI. The movement of its legs is not convincing and the way Gandalf holds it and moves his fingers while keeping it… well, that would crush it.
(And why, WHY did they add this stupid high frequency buzzing sound? It has no wings to flap?!)
Ibexes? Where?
We could add that question to my “What did the dragon eat the last 60 years?”, which is also haunting me.😀
Buzzing sound? I don’t think I heard that.
As for the ibexes: In the prologue, when the dwarves are forced to move out of Erebor you see an overhead shot of them traveling over the land, they have ponies and ibexes as carrier animals with them. It’s just a matter of seconds really.
Hehe, good question.
There is certaily a sound related to the insect. I’m not sure if “buzzing” describes it well, it sounds like a series of small electric discharges/sparking.
Ah, those are ibexes. I noticed them right in the middle of the screen but I was confused, as their horns seem very slender and shaped like a gazelle’s. The body, however, looks indeed more like an ibex. I’ll watch carefully next time.
There are several species of ibex and they vary in shape, curve and thickness of the horns.
Even within one species there is variation. If I search for pictures of the “normal” alpine ibex, I will only find pictures of specimens with very long and very curved horns. However I have seen ibexes very much like those in the movie myself already in the Alps, so… there is variety there.🙂
Yeah, Archedcory1, you really put your foot into it – or should I say your fingers, on the keyboard? This article is brilliant and we hope for more🙂.
Here is a picture just for fun, but sometimes do not we have the best photos of the guys we work with! There is a nasal leaf? Greater false vampire bat? Well, I don’t work with bats, so this is a big guess!
The plural of ibex? well, ibiza, of course😛.
but, on a more serious note – something like a Steinbock (“stonebuck” translated literally) would rather suit the Gonnhirrim, wouldn´t it?
Hello all,
I am the guy who provided Weta with the Great Eagles reference material for both the LOTR & Hobbit films.
I can confirm that they are based upon North American golden eagles. Both are in Oklahoma.
One is a preserved female golden with wings spread that was borrowed (with complete blessing by the tribe) from a Cherokee elder. The other is a female golden named Mina. About half of the eagle scenes in the last 15 minutes of Unexpected Journey was motion-captured with Mina and me.
Mina is a rehab bird missing one toe, and is very sweet tempered, for a 14-pound murder machine. The missing toe was replaced digitally in the CG. To give you an idea how powerful a golden eagle is, she does weight training with 8 feet of 2-inch-link logging chain clipped to her jesses and it may as well be an inch of ribbon.
I contributed a total of 1,074 still & macro photos taken from these two eagles, as well as resin castings of beaks, talons etc., and hours of Mina doing landings, takeoffs, and attacks on lure from 5 camera angles.
Last week I received a letter from Weta officially proclaiming me King of the Eagles. 🙂
Yours, Larry Dixon
http://www.gryphonking.com has a pic of me with the preserved eagle.
Hello Larry!
Thank you very much for taking your time to join in our discussion here! To be honest I was quite sure those were Golden Eagles, but the spotted tail kind of irritated me (yes, only that!). I couldn’t find any pictures of Golden Eagles with spotted tails! I have to admit I have never seen one up close. It is definitely also the most common eagle in my country but still you have to be VERY lucky to see one in the wild. So for exact colouration I had to rely on pictures. That is really the only reason why I rather wrote “I think it is a Golden Eagle” instead of “It IS a Golden Eagle”. But now with your confirmation I will change this in the essay above.🙂
Thanks a lot for stopping by and clearing things up. As a humble Tolkien fan and insignificant European biologist I feel very honoured to get a comment from you.🙂
And give a cheers to Mina from me, she has done an incredible job!😀
Ahhh my friend, there is no such thing as an insignificant biologist.
Also, the article is lovely. The spots on the tail are a normal variation for the species, and I “spotted” that the Weta crew had different patterns for each eagle, which is a great touch. You can thank Gino Acevedo for that. The man is spectacular.
My wife Mercedes Lackey visited the Eagle And Child pub on a research trip for one of our book series. It is said that the pub’s sign (showing a golden eagle carrying a baby) was the inspiration for Manwe’s Eagles.
I wrapped on my part with the Hobbit films in April 2012, so Premiere Night was my first time seeing the finished eagle sequence! I was positively fizzy. I texted my friends, “I JUST SAW A MOVIE WITH GIANT EAGLES! and some short people walking around New Zealand a lot.” 🙂
I can barely describe how it felt to see Gwaihir & his squadron, but the closest I have come is “rapid fire deja vu.” Every movement, surface detail, and behavioral twitch made the memory of every shot in the reference photography & video come rushing in all at once. It is strange and wonderful, and it is something I hope everyone gets to experience in their lives at least once.
Stop making me blush, will you?😉
It’s really too bad the Silmarillion will never be made into a film, Manwe’s Eagles for sure would be a magnificent sight considering their incredible size.
Speaking of size: Which short people do you mean? You do know that Dwarves are neither too tall nor too short, right?😀
All I know about dwarves is that you buy them by the dozen.
Now I wish WP had a “like” option.
From what I understood their tails had different stages of mottling depending on their level of maturity.
Edit: Sorry I posted this before Larry’s comment above was approved. Just ignore me.
This will probably sound ridiculous if it isn’t the case, but did the motion capture involve putting marker spots on Mina?
I was re-watching the eagle scenes the other day, paying closer attention to the eagles this time, and was truly impressed with how perfect they looked. Not all the CGI was a convincing as these scenes. All your efforts certainly showed on screen.
Thanks for dropping by and helping us out with this!
No markers, like tracking dots, but a technique similar to rotoscoping was used for some of it: the movements of Weta’s expertly made CG eagles was mapped over the Mina footage. Once that was done, though, the animators could change the angles and do panning effects and the like, that weren’t in the original video I shot. To me that’s pure wondrous magic. In the effects, what was mostly used, though, were the Mega Brains at Weta. These guys are just astonishing with their depth of knowledge and attention to detail. And they can improvise ANYTHING at any moment.
One other thing I can say about Weta sounds corny as hell but it really shouldn’t: these films are made with love. A hundred million dollars and truckloads of cocaine (which is to say, the traditional Hollywood approach) can’t match what a bunch of folks who adore their job can do.
Don’t give me too much credit for my LOTR/Hobbit stuff, though, guys. PJ & the crew deserve the big admiration. Thousands of people were in on the films. We did the equivalent of a moonshot and I am no astronaut, I am more like the guy who brings coffee to the astronauts. Technically I helped put footprints on the moon, sure. But I remain a schmoe in Oklahoma who writes books, flies raptors, paints pictures and plays with cars.🙂
Larry
http://www.gryphonking.com
The films surely look like made with love so I hate reading all those complaints like “omg, not true to the book!” so very often. People don’t realize HOW true to the books those films are all the other times…
We give you credit though. LOTR and Hobbit without credible eagles really wouldn’t be the same. And even the eagle guy, the second Hobbit to the right in the background… or the person bringing coffee to the astronaut are important. Next to you I feel like just a silly fangirl, haha.😀
Anyway, I edited the essay, you are part of it now.🙂
HOLY CRAP THIS WAS ON THE RECORD?! DELETE DELETE DELETE!!!
(just kidding)🙂
I hope that Fran & Philippa will add a bit of dialogue in the next 2 films about the fact that the Eagles are essentially archangels, and we are seeing the FEW times that they choose to intervene or help—and most of those times are paying back a personal debt to Gandalf. As it is, they look like animals on call.
“The Eagles! The Eagles!”
“Yeah typical Air Force, show up late then take all the credit….”
Thanks for this wealth of info!
Is there a way to distinguish Gwaihir from the others? Or do we assume that’s the eagle who Gandalf lands on at the last minute?
Yes the idea of these films being made for money before art is ridiculous. Of course there are people who want a massive return on their investment, but that’s not what is in the minds of the people working on it.
Being the eagle guy is a pretty sweet deal as far as I can see. I would be thrilled just to be the person who stipples hair into hobbit feet all day. Really, I would probably have quit my job and moved to NZ just so I could do that task for hours a day. It would have been bliss!
DJ, may I kindly start arguing with you whether Gwaihir even IS in The Hobbit? He is (like Thranduil) never actually named in the book. He is only referred to as “Lord of the Eagles” there, is that the same bird as in LOTR 60 years later? I was never actually sure about that…
And being the eagle dude is awesome, alright? Both The Hobbit and LOTR are basically ended by the same sentence: “The eagles are coming!” So how can they NOT be important?🙂
Sure argue away! You may or may not be right from the text, but I took that from Larry’s mention of seeing “Gwaihir and his squadron” above.
I’m sure Larry will not return to see this, but just in case: Larry, the Eagles scene was killer in the Hobbit. Absolutely amazing. It blew me away and brought tears to my eyes. I think it’s one of the most beautiful CG scenes ever!
Totally agree. It gives me goosebumps even when seeing it for the nineth time.
Worry not, my fine dudes and dude-ettes. I set an “alert” thing that lets me know when a new comment’s been posted here.
So to answer to the “eagles brought tears to my eyes” thing… holy crap I know, right? Remember, my part had wrapped months before the premiere, so opening night was the first time for ME to see how they turned out. I was bawling! For “Fellowship,” I cried like a baby the first 3 times Gwaihir showed up. We get emotional over this too, ya know!
I do want to clarify something, though, because it’d be way uncool of me to take credit for something I’m not. Mina isn’t mine; she lives a few hours from me, and is taken care of by an awesome guy named Oscar, who is the chairman of the International Eagle Austringer’s Association. Here is a very brief video of the two of them together. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=MuNLth728YQ#! Gives you an idea how fast they can be, and Mina isn’t even trying.
In fact when I said Mina may be the most famous eagle in the world, I didn’t mention, she and Oscar are even on a stamp! As Oscar told the story, a European country wanted to do a falconry stamp, googled up an uncredited image of him and Mina, and put it on the stamp. He didn’t know until a year later when a fellow falconer said, “You gotta see this!” and sure enough it was a picture of them off of a falconry website.
… Oh I just found out yesterday that my IT guy, here in Oklahoma, had a screen credit on Star Trek: The Next Generation. Now the universe is just mocking me.
PS: Hey Grim, I got a postcard from Neal Peart from the Counterparts tour saying he and his daughter really liked our books. I’ve also seen Old Floyd & Yes live, and even got a “oh tell them I said hi!” from Jon Anderson. Also, I shall eternally love all things Trevor Horn.🙂
PPS: You guys can just write me at gryphonking@gmail.com so we don’t drift as far off topic here as I know I can. Don’t be shy, I’m just a guy and I answer every mail.
To the best of my knowledge, that’s Gwaihir who makes the first attack run on the wargs, and who carries Gandalf specifically. In the LOTR films he hasn’t got the spotted tail because he’s a bit older (but the main reason, I think, is that I didn’t have Mina around back then, and the other golden didn’t have any tailspots except at the tail root). I love that they made the Eagles such scrappers in Unexpected Journey, because the Eagles aren’t invulnerable or immortal. They’re there because they chose to be there to fight. And when it’s time to fight, hooooboy do they bring it.
Personally, I can’t wait to see if he gets his crown. I did a hundred or so macro lens closeups just in case we get a coronation scene.🙂
(I’ve designed crowns for avian creatures before. They’re in the galleries on my website, http://www.gryphonking.com ) Heck I’d be happy to design an eagle crown. I’d also happily voice Gwaihir, if it came down to it.
It certainly came across that the eagles enjoyed their time tossing wargs around, but without losing their stately, aloof nature.
I’m glad there will be more chances to see these guys in action in the last battle, and wouldn’t that be amazing to see Billy Connolly toss a crown of gold onto Mina’s head🙂
You know, I was just now thinking of that battle, and if maybe I’ll shoot some more lure attacks with Mina. I have some scenes in mind, of eagles tossing seige equipment around. Of course, put a bit of quail on it and she’d happily attack model seige engines.
Hey speaking of Mina, I sent darkjackal a pic of her. I wonder if that can be put in here somehow? Well, it’d need to be resized, I think I sent a 400k size one. Maybe I can email it to archedcory.
I joked with my falconry buddy that Mina may be the most famous eagle in the world now. I’m not sure if she knows that, but the other day I did see her on a Bentley, with her beak polished and a tiny pair of Armani sunglasses on her. Hmm. Fame.
Ah thanks for the heads up on the email. I can add those no problem.
Mina may be getting a big head over all this, but she is quite a looker. As long as she still needs a driver for the Bentley then you can always tag along in her wake.🙂
So a bit of quail is all the good side needs to win the battle? Not sure who is going to volunteer to attach quail parts to Bolg, or Azog, or whoever is left by the end, but that would be great surprise tactic for the film to highlight. I could just imagine invisible Bilbo running around with a bevy of quail on cords, tying them to orc belts and warg tails🙂
Thanks for providing pictures of Mina, Larry! She’s very pretty, so you can give her another cheers from me for that.🙂
Early on, when there was the possibility of seeing Gwaihir’s aerie, I wanted to include a partly-eaten Mumakil in a nest there to give a sense of scale and bad-assery.
LOL! That would have done it!
This reminds me of this one legendary eagle who was once supposed to be able to lift up elephants. Was some funny local myth I read YEARS ago, but I have no clue anymore what was the explanation.
Anyway, funny idea.🙂
I enjoyed your article a lot!
Could you allow me to introduce the essence of your article in Japanese in my tweets? I believe many LotR & Hobbit fans in Japan love this very unique essay!
I’m looking forward to your reply:D
You mean translating it into Japanese? I couldn’t do that myself anyway, so go ahead! Just make sure to give credit and link back here. Thank you very much.🙂
Yes, I mean translating your article into Japanese, not throughly but roughly, because I summerize it within 12 tweets within 140 characters per tweet in Japanese.
I will gather my tweets and write the link here afterword.
Thank you so much!
No, I meant including the link to THIS page in your tweets. Unfortunately I don’t speak Japanese.😉
Thanks!
I see. I included this page link in my tweets.
Although you don’t speak Japanese, you can see how many Japanese fans faved and viewed my tweets about your article here: http://togetter.com/li/436418
Thanks!
Thank YOU!🙂
wow, this thrilling eagle-discussion comes right in time. I´m going to see the movie again tonight and will pay special attention to Mina – and to Larry in the credits.
I once saw a Golden Eagle up close – at Erfurt Zoo. he was resting comfortably on a branch in a – fortunately – all fenced in huge cage, until he saw us approaching. us and our little dog on leash. then the bright eyes ligtened up, he lifed his wings and quite visibly thought “how nice, a snack coming my way”. our dog obviously thought the same thing and tried to bolt. then both animals remembered their restraints and calmed down but it was a kind of “wild” monent.
I am sorry Anjy, but I am not in the credits (unless I missed it somewhere).
Oddly enough I have never had a screen credit on any of the films I’ve helped out with. Then again, I never charge for my movie work either. Kind of the opposite–I usually just pay out of pocket for cameras, lighting rigs, travel and so on. I just enjoy doing it.
I do get crew jackets and all sorts of neat things but I don’t charge money. My money comes from painting book covers, designing neat stuff, and writing popular fantasy novels with Mercedes Lackey.
Hobbies are weird. Some people collect stamps. I fight crime, fly raptors, play with cars and work on blockbuster movies.
But!
Friday I got a care package from my boss at Weta and he sent an official letter from Weta proclaiming me “King of the Eagles.”
I think that is pretty awesome.🙂
well, you should be in the credits, definitely, if only in “no animals were harmed” etc.😉 But I’ll sure look for the eagles and tell my daughters: “see, that’s MIna!”🙂
We thoroughly enjoyed the eagles tonight. I guess the whole theatre heard me telling my daughters “this is Mina, you see the spots on her tail?” and then one of my daughters said: “they all have spots” and I was like “well, it’s only two different eagles, really.” we felt like the elite of experts LOL
And I was sitting in the theater today thinking “and one of those toes was added later on.” lol😉
We’ll have to see it again to find out which one😉
Well just as a hint, if she had that toe, she’d frequently give the bad guys a very rude gesture.
Come to think of it, I’d like to see that.
Oh and BTW, NSFW but hilarious: http://leasticoulddo.com/comic/20130104/ is making the rounds at Weta.🙂
I think I saw the subtle look of irritation as well. LOL!
That’s probably the reason why the drop Bilbo in the first place. “Eh, LAndroval here’s another one. Catch it!” – “Got it, Gwaihir. YAY, I’m champion. Shall I toss it back to you?” – “Ah, no I gotta grab old Gandalf before he’s roasted.” – “no, need, he just jumped off the fir-tree. let’s see how his flying has improved?” – “Don’t be ridiculous, Landy, it’s in our contract to save him.” – “Stuff contracts, I never saw one that tasted half as good as mumakil.”
There is always something charming about tossing around dwarves.🙂
This is basically the story of the making of my essays.😉
Larry
Thank you for yours and Mina’s contributions to the films, and to this article.
Mina is gorgeous – working with her must be more rewarding than any compensation you might have been afforded.
I’ve invested over twenty years towards animal rescue and care – but have only ever worked with one avian – a male crow who fell from a destroyed nest during a hurricane. Hugin has since matured and been reintroduced to my own properties – a preserve for animals displaced by human developments. I’d like to believe that I see him circling overhead, or perched on a nearby fence now and then – but like children – he’s moved on. I hope that he is well.
Anyway, It sounds as though Mina has a nurturing family and a worthy home. Her career is certainly one to be envied. A crown would only pale by comparison to her immortality in the films. I wish you both the best.
Michael
Hello Michael, first things first. The name? Grim Helbeard? THAT’S METAL. Rock out with y’ bad self.
Mercedes Lackey and I did a whole lot of animal rehab (specializing in, well, the dangerous stuff) but a new place moved into the county called Wildheart Ranch and they are AMAZING. They have a lab and many machines with flashy lights that go “biiing!” So we are out of that except for a few favors now and then. We are old and creaky and tired.
We also had a male crow. His name was Vel. Vel Crow. Yes. We went there. Vel was found under a tree as a ball of fluff and both legs broken when the nest had collapsed in a storm. So he was never releasable but wow, what a sweet bird. Curious and cheerful and loved to just snuggle in.
I had a redtail I had to freeclimb over 40 feet to get before she & her brother would have died of dehydration. Her name was Cinnabar. You should have seen us, laptop on my knees, fluffy hawk on my lap in a towel nest, writing Valdemar books. Cinnabar seemed to never stop growing. She was small eagle sized by the time we hacked her out. Massive girl. But she would fly down and buzz me periodically, and after a couple of years she found a boyfriend and I’ve seen their young in the area.
I have enjoyed visiting with everyone here!
If there’s something you’d like just pop me a note.
Larry,
That would be a shot of ‘Heavy’ … to a pint of ‘Metal’. These days, it’s all ‘Progressive’ for me. My last bass was sold to save Dharma – my black lab/german shepherd that is better company than the headbangers I’ve played with.
Vel-Crow … you crack me up. It sounds as though you and Mercedes are doing ‘good work’ – and not just the successful novels and inspiring artwork. If anyone asks my impression of the ‘King of the Eagles’ – I’ll tell them that I know for a fact – that he’s out there ‘Fighting the Good Fight’ for Middle Earth.
My best wishes to you, Mercedes, Mina, Vel-Crow,Cinnabar and the rest of your extended family.
I’m looking forward to seeing Mina shred some goblin ass in the final battle.
Grim
A bearded man that likes both Tolkien and Prog Metal. I think I am in love.
Fortunately, sepia toned photos don’t reveal the blush. But don’t fall too soon – I’m old enough to have seen Pink Floyd perform ‘The Wall’ … before they split, and I haven’t missed a Rush tour since … here we go … the ‘2112’ album. Lots of white highlights in this beard. But thanks for brightening this otherwise overcast morning.
You’re my ‘new’ favorite biologist.
Michael
Hey Larry,
I was just wondering whether my email failed to get there. It has been almost a week.🙂
(if you don’t want to answer, that is fine, don’t worry! I just get the feeling you somehow didn’t get it…)
Thanks for all your input by the way, I also love to read your comments!
* mumbling * I READ it , I just didn’t GET it…. OK, old joke. Sorry, I have a bad flu. Try a re-send, just in case?
Thank you for posting this. As a biologist and nature lover, I really enjoyed your summary. Regarding the American Robin. I just recently saw The Hobbit again and I particularly noticed it also. Not only does it look like an American Robin in it’s brief appearance, it also sounds like one. The call just before it flies off sounded like an American Robin to me.
I own an Icelandic Horse. The talk on the breed chat boards seems to be that Icelandics were used in some shots but in others they used larger horses “dressed” to look more like shaggy ponies. The switching back and forth had to do with getting the proportions right in the various shots and whether they were using the actors or shorter stand-ins. I was trying to find out more about this when I came across your article here. If you know horses there are certainly shots where the coats look fake. They seem almost too shaggy even for Icelandics. Also there was at least one shot where the horse’s leg just didn’t look right. It looked like a leg moving inside a baggy trouser leg if you know what I mean.
Anyway, great article. Thanks.
I noticed the fur looking odd even before I read that they were dressed up and thought at first they were using bigger horses made to look like ponies. I think, it Jackson’s idea that dwarves ride sturdy, furry little ponies no matter what time of the year it is, which doesn’t make sense, of course.
The eagles aren’t supposed to be a real species, they aren’t really even eagles at all: they are maiar.
We can’t be 100% sure about that.
And of course they are no real species. They are too big.
As a thought on a possible biological explanation of dragons breath…
Naturally, I cannot direct you to one animal with all the necessary features, so you’ll have to take them as a divergent evolution breaking off potentially as early as lobe-finned fishes. (that is a bit of a leap from the relation to early lizards that most people assume they have). Presumably though, a creature that retained a swim-bladder like structure with a channel to the throat as well as forming more traditional lungs could have evolved to utilize that bladder to store flammable gasses such as methane often generated by bacteria in the gastrointestinal system. (methane could also serve to compensate for some of the animals weight for flight, though not a great deal unless they’re storing prodigious amounts)
For an actual ignition method, I’d have to do some studying. My initial thought is an arcing discharge from an electric organ, but there may be other methods that are more (or at least equally) likely to explain this.
Of course, this is all just speculative and requires the convergence of traits that are unlikely to come together. land animals don’t select for electric organs (I imagine because the atmosphere isn’t conductive enough), and I can think think of few reasons for an animal to store methane
the poor dearies suffered from gas, then, due to dietary habits (too much dwarf?) and did a lot of … um… farting the wrong way. the electricity might have been added from the outside, maybe scales rubbing together (my car givex me a shock all the time I want to lock it) and thus igniting the methane-breath the moment it left the nostrils.
If you check out the movie Reign of Fire with Christian Bale, there is at least some biology backing the dual chemistry organs in the mouth. That could also apply to Smaug. The best known example of a true biological flamethrower is the Bombardier Beetle. Where there is fantasy, there will always be a way to rationalize possibility. The Warg issue can be looked at in a different light if you look into the recent string of sightings of the new wolf/coyote hybrid they are calling chupacabra. Those things are ugly and brutal. Oh, thanks for a compelling read here!
I thought chupacabra were just coyotes with sarcoptic mange.
I didn’t sit through whole “Reign of Fire”, despite loving dragons I found that film awful. :]
Bombardier beetle, yes, but they are still not producing fire in a sense a dragon would. I just recently read “The Science of Middle-earth” by Henry Gee and he gives some ideas on how the fire mechanism of a dragon COULD work, but doesn’t come to a satisfying conclusion either. There seems to be always a problem in starting the fire and storing the chemicals.
As for chupacabras: So far I only knew them as a highly improbable cryptid (cryptozoology being one of my silliest hobbies…) from Central America, a lot closer in probability to Nessie than let’s say the Orang Pendek or the surviving Thylacine. Now that I mention it – I want Thylacine wargs!
But I doubt it is possible to get any living offspring from a canoid and a feloid, definitely not a fertile one though. Evolutionary speaking they are already way too far apart.
(EDIT: Oh boy, sorry! I thought I had read hyena, not coyote. Now I do feel stupid…)
This biologist really enjoyed reading this post! Love your analysis of all the species, and the identification of a few I didn’t recognize. I have a few thoughts to share:
First, the American Robin really grates on me, too! I can accept completely made-up species, but to find Turdus migratorius in Middle-earth is too jarring! However, I was pleased that at least it is a thrush. And its calls are correct.
Next, I appreciate that Peter Jackson and co. are trying to follow the book by having the ponies be really hairy, but ponies (and horses) just aren’t supposed to be that hairy in the summer. Ponies and horses that *are* that hairy in the summer usually have something called Cushing’s Disease; among its symptoms is an inability to shed, so a very hairy appearance year-round. I see those ponies and keep thinking they need some serious vet treatment.
Thirdly, I had the same thoughts about the sense of a forest-dwelling Elf riding Megaloceros! Especially in a forest as dense as Mirkwood. Those antlers would get stuck all over the place. Maybe Thranduil’s got a stable of something else for riding in the woods, and the Megaloceros is just for when he visits Erebor?
Finally, have to agree on the hairiness of Dwarves. To get braids that thick and still have some impressive amounts of loose hair left over, you have to start with an awful lot of hair.
Thanks again; that was fun.
This post makes me so happy.🙂 Thanks!
I find it interesting that you’d say most people wouldn’t notice or be bothered by the American Robin because that’s exactly what brought me here. I wouldn’t say I’m “bothered” (they are, after all, in a mythological land), but I did find it very odd. I was also wondering about the bird that landed in Radagast’s hair. My first thought was “House Sparrow,” but that’s only because those are the closest match in my region. I screenshot it and I still don’t know what it is. I am assuming that it’s based on a European species, so it wouldn’t be in any of my bird guides: http://imgur.com/a/qquFs
My closest guess would be a Spanish Sparrow, but again this is really out of my region of expertise and it wouldn’t be an exact match.
I do have it on a bird identification forum right now so if anybody there has a good guess I’ll post it.
I can’t even tell you how much this comment means to me!
The reason why I subtly tend to put my own profession down is because that’s how I have experienced it to be received by others on a daily basis. Whenever I talk about biology stuff to non-biology people they roll their eyes. Just the other day a friend of mine mixed jaguar and leopard up in the local zoo and I explained the difference to her. She listened to it and then – almost bored – said: “And why does that matter?” Oh come on! It’s not as if I tried to explain the differences between two vole species from the same area… but in both cases (the great cats and the two not even related robin species) we are talking about different CONTINENTS, so it definitely matters.
So yes, I am glad about everybody who does find these things important.🙂
That is not a sparrow by the way, it’s too large and the colouration is also totally different. I am not exactly a bird expert myself (not really interested in them and just TOO many species), but keep in mind I live in Europe and I can’t think of any species here that looks like that. For a second I thought Cinclus cinclus, but their white spot is a lot bigger. Please let me know if you find anything!
That bird looks much more like the Spanish sparrow than an aquatic dipper.
The point why I brought in the dipper is because (at least the one we have here…) they are thoroughly brown except for the white parts, while sparrows always have some kind of markings in the brown part… which the bird in the film does not seem to have.
Ah, I can’t really describe it that well in English, I hope you get my point.🙂
Well, the Weta book says those are sparrows. I am still not convinced though, they really don’t look like sparrows.😦
The bird in the film isn’t totally brown and white. It has similar coloration to some other Old World sparrows: Reddish color on the top of the head, white cheeks, black chin, black mask. The pattern is similar to a Spanish sparrow or an Italian sparrow. It doesn’t match exactly to any real sparrow I’ve seen (no white eyebrows, there is a lot more black on the front), but I have a feeling they used some sort of related sparrow as a model. Since it’s a CGI bird, there might not be a 100% counterpart.
It might be like the Rhosgobel rabbits: Modelled on a real world species but definitely not at home in this world.
I have no clue how often one can see sparrows in North America, but here in Europe they are BY FAR the most common birds. It’s pretty much hard to step outside without seeing sparrows. There are two different species where I live, which are quite different to each other but both are nothing like the bird on the picture. Or maybe it’s just the screencap, I don’t know… but real world sparrows have all shades of black, white, grey and brown on them, which this bird doesn’t seem to have. Also, sparrows have a light grey, almost white breast. This bird only has white cheeks.
I know, Weta says it’s a sparrow. You say it’s a sparrow. DJ says it’s a sparrow. It just doesn’t look like one to me. But then again, who am I even?🙂
Where I live I can’t go anywhere without passing a House Sparrow (Passer domesticus). They look similar to the Hobbit bird, but both the House sparrow and the Spanish sparrow have forked tails, while Radagast’s birds do not.
Ah, isn’t that lovely? You gave us tomatoes, we gave you sparrows. What a great deal.🙂
Here are more screenshots with as clear a view of the head as I could get: https://heirsofdurin.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/the_hobbit_an_unexpected_journey_t01-mkv_003120075.jpg
and one of the side view of the pair:
The pair appear to both be males (hey that’s cool, I’m not judging) if they follow the same coloration of real world sparrows with the males having a dark “beard”. But maybe they are more like dwarves, and both sexes have “beards”🙂
From one shot to the next the colors seem to fade, so that the first screenshot looks more like the summer coloration of the Spanish sparrow, while the next looks more like the winter coloration. http://www.birdguides.com/species/species.asp?sp=163024
I can’t believe I am the only one thinking the two birds look nothing alike. You even give the best proof in pictures for their difference here!
But yeah, I give up.
I would say you are pretty damn close with the Spanish Sparrow if you compare it to this image http://www.arkive.org/spanish-sparrow/passer-hispaniolensis/
This is a great article! I haven’t read the comments, so sorry if I restate something, but there were just two things I wanted to point out.
First, the Americas may not have existed during the Third Age. Eru rounded out the Earth after the Second Age, but Middle-earth still looks quite different from Eurasia today. There was apparently more significant geological activity that occurred before making this present world. So including an American species of bird isn’t really a problem, I think.
Second, while hyenas are CURRENTLY considered feliforms, they weren’t always. They are actually caniforms in body, but their behavior is more cat-like. My personal perspective is that they are some third branch between bears and wolves (their faces seem more bear-like to me than wolf-like). I agree that the Wargs in AUJ were terrible. They were even worse in TTT, though, so I guess I can’t complain too much. But I don’t have a problem with their hyena-esque appearance.